Posted By: Paul   On: 15 Dec 2008   At: 1:39pm

I should clarify that just because I am more cynical about organised religion than possibly most people who read this blog.  I am not against it.  I am just that much more wary and aware of the potential to cause harm using religion and peoples faith as a cover for some pretty despicable acts.

For people of faith the Church can be a wonderful thing.

I once told a person who moved to a new town and was fairly upset about not knowing anyone, that he should check out his local church, even if he wasn’t a believer in pretty much anything.  They would see him right, and I do believe that.

But I also believe that because people of faith put so much stock and trust in their clergy of whatever denomination that there is a risk of abuse of power, perhaps most shockingly highlighted with the Catholic Priests and their sex offences with children.  I am sure it is not just in the Catholic church either, but of course what is more shocking about that was the alleged cover up by that church.  That is where my cynicism lies.  Abuse of power, not the actual faith, but using peoples faith for their own ends.

Sometimes I really wish I could go back 2 millennia and actually listen to Jesus preach and hear it all undiluted and unpolluted by the touch of man over the centuries.

Posted By: iTalker   On: 15 Dec 2008   At: 12:19am

Jonathan,

Thanks for the timely reminder that it is when we are organised as a Christians we can serve our communities better. The fact that we are organised and open every day here in Bo’ness means that we can be available to make a difference. Your right we’ll get things wrong we need to be careful that we don’t become institution centred. We need to be reminded that we are Christ centred.

Posted By: Jonathan   On: 14 Dec 2008   At: 10:10pm

I attend church every week if possible.  I am part of the leadership team in St Andrew’s Bo’ness.  I consider myself a part of ‘organised’ religion.  I hear what Paul says about do-gooders or petty people but we are all sinners so it follows that the church (or its religion) as a ‘thing’ will never be perfect.  We are all dependendent on God’s grace.  St Andrew’s as a place has helped me to grow spiritually.  Would I have made the same journey without the help of others in such an environment?  Maybe ... but the path would have been less clear.  And I’ve learned to accept that those within religious institutions will make mistakes - just like everyone else.

Posted By: italker   On: 12 Dec 2008   At: 7:32pm

Yeah James i think your right.

Posted By: James Hogg   On: 12 Dec 2008   At: 11:19am

I think it is because there is no relationship in “religion”, “religion” as people see it is all about structure, power and telling people what to do. I think it is interesting that one of the things that Jesus’ coming allowed us to do was call God father, that he put us in relationship with us. That all the word before then for God were very austere, but the word father can’t but tell us that we are in a personal relationship with him. So what it think I am saying is that People want to find God not religion

Posted By: jenn   On: 11 Dec 2008   At: 2:10pm

Being 21 and part of a big, loud social circle I was always being told from friends that religion means putting an end to our fun, and having some big scary minister looking down on us and preaching AT us about how wrongly we behave and how much shame we bring ourselves and God. And, not wanting to feel bad about myself I never wanted to properly commit to Christ as I assumed the 2 were inseperable.

However I was reminded that the reason Jesus died was exactly so, upon asking for forgiveness, I would no longer have to carry this shame. Not only that, but if we are truly sorry for our sins then we need only ask for forgiveness once and then move on, for God will forgive us, it is however our job to receive this forgivenss and move on from the past.

The one main thing however that has created a deep hunger in me for Christ, was having it recently explained to me that I am God’s daughter and He loves me unconditionally. I know this might seem very basic but with all the threats of strict rules that religion sometimes brings I had forgotten this. Whenever I think about this, joy literally explodes inside me and finally, after all my teenage years spent looking in the wrong places, I feel content and, more than anything, at peace.

I see now that God only gives us rules to live by as a way of protecting us and keeping us happy, not because he wants to spoil our fun. He loves us and wants to see us prosper and share His love with others.

I think we need to remember that it is this love that is faith and organised religion etc is simply a way of sharing and worshipping this love with others. I feel like St Andrews provides this community centred, relaxed feeling a lot more than a lot of other churches I’ve been to.

I just hope that I my relationshp with God can now grow to keep this joy with me at all times.

(sorry for the huge rant!!)

Posted By: Paul   On: 11 Dec 2008   At: 10:04am

I think it’s a little bit of knowledge that can put people off it.

After all we are about to or already are celebrating Christ’s birth, yet we know now that Christ wasn’t born in December.  Doesn’t take anything away for me, because it’s a celebration of his birth, not his birthday.

However the Church back in ye olden days basically decided we should celebrate Christmas at this time to stop those pesky druid types worshiping at the solstice.

Would Christ himself have done that? or would he have talked to the druid dudes and tried to empathise and maybe teach them another way?

I suspect it would be the latter.

And that sums up the problem with religion for me.  The message is corrupted by either pretty evil people who are in charge or perhaps worse, dogooders who try to bludgeon people with their righteousness rather than understanding and empathy.  Zealots might be a good word for them.

Lets not even start on the Crusades. (did you see Boris Johnsons documentary recently?  Very informative.)

Either way we are more informed these days, and not only does it chip away at faith, but it also makes people including me, much more cynical about organised religion.

The thing is I cant justify a lack of education as a good thing either.

Is that the original sin coming back to haunt us?

Posted By: italker   On: 10 Dec 2008   At: 11:42pm

Anne

So what is it about religion that puts us all off, believers and non believers alike? Is it because it often looks to be hypocritical and out of touch and often not very compassionate?

Posted By: AnneDroid   On: 10 Dec 2008   At: 11:14pm

Yes.  I was talking to a prisoner the other day, whose sister is a Christian.  He told me he had given up on religion when he was seven.  He was somewhat surprised, to say the least, when I, as the chaplain, said I didn’t like religion either…  We agreed to continue the conversation anon.